Interdependence with Mpho Tutu van Furth


We’re feeling humbled and full of love this week as we chat to artist, speaker, writer and priest, Mpho Tutu van Furth.

Mpho tells us about her experiences living under apartheid as a young girl and the freedom and justice that so many South Africans, including her family, fought for.

We also hear about Mpho’s journey into priesthood and how she reluctantly handed her license back to the church after their (unfortunately unsurprising) reaction to her ‘lovely can of worms’ – AKA falling in love with a woman. Perhaps most importantly, Mpho reminds us how interconnected and interdependent we all are, and that showing a little bit of care can do a whole lot of good.

Plus, Katherine and Paul reflect on some similarities they see between Mpho’s apartheid memories and life in modern-day Palestine. Like the rest of us, Paul and Katherine jump on the football bandwagon, and Katherine officially joins the #FreeBritney movement. 

Links, resources and episode timestamps (for all you skippers out there) below.

The Reverend Canon Mpho Tutu van Furth is an episcopal priest, an artist, an author, an accomplished public speaker and retreat facilitator. She has had many roles in non-profit leadership. She was the founding executive director of the Desmond & Leah Tutu Legacy Foundation. She continues to work for environmental justice, human rights and equal access to opportunity for all people without regard to race, class or gender. With her wife, Marceline, she has established and is Executive Director of the Tutu Teach Foundation to enhance access to opportunity for women and girls. Ms. Tutu van Furth and her wife live in the Netherlands. They have four children and two (amazing) grandchildren.
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Why Longtime Britney Spears Fans Are Demanding to #FreeBritney

Did Rudiger try and bite Pogba?

A history of Apartheid in South Africa

Domas: Carrying Apartheid’s book

The June 16 Soweto Youth Uprising

Space and power in South Africa: The township as a mechanism of control

The Desmond & Leah Tutu Legacy Foundation

What does ubuntu really mean?

Truth and Reconciliation Commission


00:00 – Welcome to Somewhere To Believe In
00:48 – Katherine and Paul catch up
00:00 – Katherine and Paul on Prospect Farm
08:49 – Introducing Mpho Tutu van Furth
09:52 – Mpho joins the conversation
10:05 – Mpho on lockdown
13:27 – Mpho on South African identity
16:49 – Mpho on the living under apartheid
23:33 – Mpho on privilege
27:05 – Mpho on her journey to priesthood
29:00 – Mpho on Marceline
33:58 – Mpho on church and her sexuality
36:00 – Mpho on small acts of kindness
38:00 – Mpho on personal spirituality 
40:56 – Mpho on being loving
43:47 – Mpho on ubuntu
44:50 – Mpho on enjoying the journey
47:18 – Mpho on forgiveness
48:13 – Katherine and Paul reflect on the conversation with Mpho
01:01:20 – Next week on the podcast
01:01:58 – How to get in touch with us 
01:02:35 – Thank you’s
01:03:24 – Hidden track

A huge thanks to the Greenbelt Volunteer Talks Team for all their hard work on editing this episode. Our podcast music is ‘I Can Change’ by Lee Bains III & The Glory Fires.