Comments on: Take an Olive Seed Sunday Service http://www.greenbelt.org.uk/blog/2009/08/take-an-olive-seed/ Musings on the world of faith, arts and justice, from Greenbelt HQ Tue, 07 Feb 2012 12:21:52 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: admin http://www.greenbelt.org.uk/blog/2009/08/take-an-olive-seed/comment-page-2/#comment-695 admin Thu, 03 Sep 2009 09:54:29 +0000 http://www.greenbelt.org.uk/blog/?p=885#comment-695 The Service this year has clearly prompted lots of feedback. Thank you for your comments. What we're going to do is to put 6/7 of your key, common questions and concerns to the team of curators who came up with the service and we'll invite them to respond to each. This might take a day or two – the curators are Greenbelt volunteers – so please bear with us. In the meantime, we're going to close this post to further comments to avoid the job of responding becoming too overwhelming. The Service this year has clearly prompted lots of feedback. Thank you for your comments. What we're going to do is to put 6/7 of your key, common questions and concerns to the team of curators who came up with the service and we'll invite them to respond to each. This might take a day or two – the curators are Greenbelt volunteers – so please bear with us.

In the meantime, we're going to close this post to further comments to avoid the job of responding becoming too overwhelming.

]]> By: Ben Whitehouse http://www.greenbelt.org.uk/blog/2009/08/take-an-olive-seed/comment-page-2/#comment-693 Ben Whitehouse Thu, 03 Sep 2009 09:39:45 +0000 http://www.greenbelt.org.uk/blog/?p=885#comment-693 I'm excited and encouraged at the healthy levels of debate happening here on the blog. Long may it continue! I'm excited and encouraged at the healthy levels of debate happening here on the blog.

Long may it continue!

]]> By: Steve t http://www.greenbelt.org.uk/blog/2009/08/take-an-olive-seed/comment-page-2/#comment-692 Steve t Thu, 03 Sep 2009 07:34:27 +0000 http://www.greenbelt.org.uk/blog/?p=885#comment-692 Disappointed by the number of folks complaining they wanted english translations of the readings. You mean you haven't memorised the bible? Or even brought one with you? Evangelical standards have clearly slipped from the days when i was one. ;) Disappointed by the number of folks complaining they wanted english translations of the readings. You mean you haven't memorised the bible? Or even brought one with you? Evangelical standards have clearly slipped from the days when i was one. ;)

]]> By: Paul McDowell http://www.greenbelt.org.uk/blog/2009/08/take-an-olive-seed/comment-page-2/#comment-690 Paul McDowell Wed, 02 Sep 2009 22:51:28 +0000 http://www.greenbelt.org.uk/blog/?p=885#comment-690 For the most part I liked the service. The liturgy was fine (although as someone said to me afterwards, the Lord's Prayer would have been a welcome addition), the anointing with oil was a special moment and the Elbow Bump of Peace was an inspired mix of lunacy, necessity and great good humour. I didn't find any problem with the Palestinian angle, it's not what I would have done but who wants to go to a service at Greenbelt that's the same as the one you go to every week? The song 'God of Peace and Justice' was great, a time of quiet and reflection that was thoughtfully led so that it was easy to join in. And that was my problem with the hymns (yes, again). If there are going to be hymns that we all join in with, they need to be singable. I take bigjohn's point about criticism, but I don't think Agents of Future were the right group to be leading the singing of the hymns - to have used them elsewhere in the service may have been a good idea. The pauses were frustrating but with a strong lead this could have been overcome, but the lead singer wasn't always audible, and the lengths of the pauses were occasionally different from verse to verse. I'm all for radical thinking (and am neither evangelical nor anglican nor conservative!) but I do agree that this was an opportunity missed. A shame, because this has often been the weak part of the Sunday service in the past and it would be good for it to be easier to join in. It's just this one important part which doesn't seem to work: the hymns themselves are fine. My 32nd Greenbelt by the way. For the most part I liked the service. The liturgy was fine (although as someone said to me afterwards, the Lord's Prayer would have been a welcome addition), the anointing with oil was a special moment and the Elbow Bump of Peace was an inspired mix of lunacy, necessity and great good humour. I didn't find any problem with the Palestinian angle, it's not what I would have done but who wants to go to a service at Greenbelt that's the same as the one you go to every week?

The song 'God of Peace and Justice' was great, a time of quiet and reflection that was thoughtfully led so that it was easy to join in.

And that was my problem with the hymns (yes, again). If there are going to be hymns that we all join in with, they need to be singable. I take bigjohn's point about criticism, but I don't think Agents of Future were the right group to be leading the singing of the hymns – to have used them elsewhere in the service may have been a good idea. The pauses were frustrating but with a strong lead this could have been overcome, but the lead singer wasn't always audible, and the lengths of the pauses were occasionally different from verse to verse. I'm all for radical thinking (and am neither evangelical nor anglican nor conservative!) but I do agree that this was an opportunity missed.

A shame, because this has often been the weak part of the Sunday service in the past and it would be good for it to be easier to join in. It's just this one important part which doesn't seem to work: the hymns themselves are fine.

My 32nd Greenbelt by the way.

]]> By: Gareth http://www.greenbelt.org.uk/blog/2009/08/take-an-olive-seed/comment-page-2/#comment-689 Gareth Wed, 02 Sep 2009 22:45:50 +0000 http://www.greenbelt.org.uk/blog/?p=885#comment-689 At the Monday night Last Orders, there were quite a few references to the music from the Sunday Service - not complimentary at all - and judging by the response from the crowd in there, they all seemed to be in agreement, so I don't really buy into this idea that it's one or two people who didn't like it posting on here with multiple accounts. At the Monday night Last Orders, there were quite a few references to the music from the Sunday Service – not complimentary at all – and judging by the response from the crowd in there, they all seemed to be in agreement, so I don't really buy into this idea that it's one or two people who didn't like it posting on here with multiple accounts.

]]> By: MattJ http://www.greenbelt.org.uk/blog/2009/08/take-an-olive-seed/comment-page-2/#comment-688 MattJ Wed, 02 Sep 2009 21:50:26 +0000 http://www.greenbelt.org.uk/blog/?p=885#comment-688 Overall, the service worked well I think. Its aim was to be inclusive and wide-ranging, and attempt to appeal to many, and I think it did that. Some parts of it were not my cup of tea, but that's fair enough. I will say though that the hymns were, frankly, murdered. As others have said, three great well-known Welsh melodies were turned into something completely unsingable; I fully agree with Jenny Humphreys' very first comment here. Please don't make the same mistake again, Greenbelt! Overall, the service worked well I think. Its aim was to be inclusive and wide-ranging, and attempt to appeal to many, and I think it did that. Some parts of it were not my cup of tea, but that's fair enough.

I will say though that the hymns were, frankly, murdered. As others have said, three great well-known Welsh melodies were turned into something completely unsingable; I fully agree with Jenny Humphreys' very first comment here. Please don't make the same mistake again, Greenbelt!

]]> By: bigjohn http://www.greenbelt.org.uk/blog/2009/08/take-an-olive-seed/comment-page-1/#comment-685 bigjohn Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:21:52 +0000 http://www.greenbelt.org.uk/blog/?p=885#comment-685 hi jennifer - yes, hands up, that is a friend i am staying with and they posted their comments using my macbook, looks like they left the default website link (mine). Well spotted. Now if everyone else would like to link to their own website it would be nice to see who we all are. hi jennifer – yes, hands up, that is a friend i am staying with and they posted their comments using my macbook, looks like they left the default website link (mine). Well spotted. Now if everyone else would like to link to their own website it would be nice to see who we all are.

]]> By: MartinS http://www.greenbelt.org.uk/blog/2009/08/take-an-olive-seed/comment-page-1/#comment-684 MartinS Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:18:10 +0000 http://www.greenbelt.org.uk/blog/?p=885#comment-684 Thanks for the analysis bigjohn. For the record, I had an amazing encounter with God on Sunday. Being impossible-to-sing-along-with really helped me to meet God in the music ... of Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue". Am I part of a coordinated attack, or a troll-follower? No. Was the "Sunday Service" worship? For some, yes. There were numerous other times during GB that were worshipful ... and numerous other times during GB during which we could engage with politics and social inclusion. Sure, I need forgiveness for shifting my focus away from God on Sunday morning. Sadly it seems that I, and many others, are so easily distracted that we need some help from the service organisers to stay focused. Perhaps the "Sunday Service" was aimed at 'mass inclusivity'. Many folk seem unable to see how it aimed people toward Christ. We must engage in difficult politics. We must look for God's answers, amid human ideas. Whether the GB "Sunday Service" is the time and place for this is for the organisers' to know. This bear-of-very-little-brain is starting to think that 'mass inclusivity' is for the GB intelligentsia. Perhaps I should retreat to the camp-site, with a Bible, some bread, some wine and the community of fellow believers that for one weekend each August: - includes me in their lives - challenges me with their politics - teaches, trains, rebukes, encourages and inspires me This is my church. Thanks for the analysis bigjohn.

For the record, I had an amazing encounter with God on Sunday. Being impossible-to-sing-along-with really helped me to meet God in the music … of Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue".

Am I part of a coordinated attack, or a troll-follower? No. Was the "Sunday Service" worship? For some, yes.

There were numerous other times during GB that were worshipful … and numerous other times during GB during which we could engage with politics and social inclusion.

Sure, I need forgiveness for shifting my focus away from God on Sunday morning. Sadly it seems that I, and many others, are so easily distracted that we need some help from the service organisers to stay focused.

Perhaps the "Sunday Service" was aimed at 'mass inclusivity'. Many folk seem unable to see how it aimed people toward Christ.

We must engage in difficult politics. We must look for God's answers, amid human ideas. Whether the GB "Sunday Service" is the time and place for this is for the organisers' to know.

This bear-of-very-little-brain is starting to think that 'mass inclusivity' is for the GB intelligentsia. Perhaps I should retreat to the camp-site, with a Bible, some bread, some wine and the community of fellow believers that for one weekend each August:

- includes me in their lives

- challenges me with their politics

- teaches, trains, rebukes, encourages and inspires me

This is my church.

]]> By: Jennifer O'Brien http://www.greenbelt.org.uk/blog/2009/08/take-an-olive-seed/comment-page-1/#comment-683 Jennifer O'Brien Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:04:56 +0000 http://www.greenbelt.org.uk/blog/?p=885#comment-683 Big John, On the subject of conspiracy theories, I was intrigued to find that clicking on "David Dubal" (comment no. 25) leads me to the same Big John blog as clicking on "Big John" (comment no. 12), even though "David Dubal" and "Big John" are apparently different people. And "Dubal" does sound a bit like "double". I'm intrigued ;-) Fascinating discussion by the way... Big John,
On the subject of conspiracy theories, I was intrigued to find that clicking on "David Dubal" (comment no. 25) leads me to the same Big John blog as clicking on "Big John" (comment no. 12), even though "David Dubal" and "Big John" are apparently different people. And "Dubal" does sound a bit like "double". I'm intrigued ;-)

Fascinating discussion by the way…

]]> By: longliveGB http://www.greenbelt.org.uk/blog/2009/08/take-an-olive-seed/comment-page-1/#comment-682 longliveGB Wed, 02 Sep 2009 18:37:26 +0000 http://www.greenbelt.org.uk/blog/?p=885#comment-682 I thought the service was a breath of fresh air, actually relevant to the times we live in and bringing us all together to think about the wider message of christianity and the how we can live the life jesus did, bringing justice and equality to all people. i agree that the songs were a bit hard to follow, but i thought that reem kelani was absolutely brilliant. We dont come to greenbelt for a sunday service we could get at church, we come to be challenged and to reevaluate how we live our lives for the 361 days we are not at greenbelt. I hope that the message of justice for the palestinian people will stay with those who were touched by the service and spur them on to work hard for the justice those people so need. I thought the service was a breath of fresh air, actually relevant to the times we live in and bringing us all together to think about the wider message of christianity and the how we can live the life jesus did, bringing justice and equality to all people.
i agree that the songs were a bit hard to follow, but i thought that reem kelani was absolutely brilliant.
We dont come to greenbelt for a sunday service we could get at church, we come to be challenged and to reevaluate how we live our lives for the 361 days we are not at greenbelt.
I hope that the message of justice for the palestinian people will stay with those who were touched by the service and spur them on to work hard for the justice those people so need.

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